Do you beleive in ghosts?

I know that Titan is going to call me a moron(at minimun), but I do beleive in them.
Do you?

There are not that many things that I dont believe in and with good reasons.

I believe in something spiritual after life.

So, I voted yes - however, well... I'm not to sure what to say.

Rorschach wrote:

I know that Titan is going to call me a moron(at minimun), but I do beleive in them.
Do you?

No, because there is zero evidence of them existing. Everything must be proven not to be ridiculed.

TitanT2 wrote:

Rorschach wrote:

I know that Titan is going to call me a moron(at minimun), but I do beleive in them.
Do you?

No, because there is zero evidence of them existing. Everything must be proven not to be ridiculed.

Then what happens after you die?

Law, Conservation of Energy: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

If energy can't be destroyed (proven by science), and humans are / possess a form of energy (proven by science), what happens?

To be honest, proof as existed for the longest, however, no matter which proof has been handed down, none believes it.

Scientist even proven ghosts existed but other disclaim their research.

The way I see it is as followed, if you never saw a gold fish in your entirely life, although all the research done that proves it exists, you may as well dont believe it exists since you never saw it although it does exist.

Same thing with ghosts, to not see doesnt mean they are not there.

Edit: And even if people say they saw a ghost with their own eyes or felt their presence, they still get discredited for it.

I find it so odd that so many proof exists and still so many says " Its not proven" the irony in it is unreal

Lena Jade wrote:

To be honest, proof as existed for the longest, however, no matter which proof has been handed down, none believes it.

Scientist even proven ghosts existed but other disclaim their research.

The way I see it is as followed, if you never saw a gold fish in your entirely life, although all the research done that proves it exists, you may as well dont believe it exists since you never saw it although it does exist.

Same thing with ghosts, to not see doesnt mean they are not there.

Edit: And even if people say they saw a ghost with their own eyes or felt their presence, they still get discredited for it.

I find it so odd that so many proof exists and still so many says " Its not proven" the irony in it is unreal

Proof doesn't exist, it is a study on different energy.

Galenth Dysley wrote:

TitanT2 wrote:

Rorschach wrote:

I know that Titan is going to call me a moron(at minimun), but I do beleive in them.
Do you?

No, because there is zero evidence of them existing. Everything must be proven not to be ridiculed.

Then what happens after you die?

Law, Conservation of Energy: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

If energy can't be destroyed (proven by science), and humans are / possess a form of energy (proven by science), what happens?

That doesn't prove ghosts. That is only evidence for energy in living beings.

Again, it is not proven. Truelly.

Proof does exist Titan, it is your choice to believe it or not, proof has existed for centuries.

Links that should help this conversation:
FYI I don't intend to insult anyone, nor hope to offend anyone. I just want to put some information out there for people to utilize.

*Note that the links look like regular words, so don't forget to scroll over words to see what I'm talking about*

Concerning actual arguments:
- Argument from Ignorance
- Evidence of Absence
- Burden of Proof

Concerning Ghost "Hunting":
- Criticism of Ghost Hunters
- Skepticism of Ghost Hunting Practices
- More on the Science of Ghost Hunting

Concerning Ghost Proof:
- Scientific Basis of Ghosts *I'm going to warn you, this one is more inflammatory than some of you will be comfortable with*
- Forum conversation that explains why Ghosts can't walk through walls/doors/etc and still exist in the physical plane.
- General info on Skepticism

Concerning Stuff Ghosts Do:
- Carbon Monoxide poisoning as an explanation for some hauntings
- Seeing Patterns out of things that lack them
- An entire haunting explained through non-supernatural events
- Magnetism as a reason for experiencing these sort of things
- Infrasound as another cause

Philosophical Worldviews/Info:
- Metaphysical Naturalism
*This is what a worldview minus ANYTHING supernatural is called*
- Spiritualism
- Spiritism
- Occam's Razor
- Anomalistics

Concerning Death:
- Wikianswers: What Happens When You Die?
- What Happens When You Die 2 (Forum edition)
- What Happens When You Die 3 (Mommy Edition)

What happens during death (My version):

• Pulse stops, breathing stops, metabolism stops
  
• Pallor Mortis - Within 30 minutes of death the body will look extremely pale due to a lack of blood moving around the body.
  
• Algor Mortis - The body will begin to feel cold (this is due to the stopping of Homeostasis)
  
• Rigor Mortis - Chemical changes in the muscles cause the limbs to become stiff (Begins about 3 hours after death, lasts for about 3 days).
  
• Livor Mortis - Blood sinks due to gravity causing discoloration of the bottom half of the body. *Caution, there is a picture of a corpse in the article*
  
• Decomposition - Breakdown of the body

Decomposition Continued (it needed it's own section):

• Autolysis begins - The destruction of cells via their own enzymes.
  
• Organs begin to break down
  
• When Autolysis reaches the end, the body lacks oxygen. Normal bacteria in the human body begin to break down carbs, proteins, and fats.
  
• The chemical product of this breakdown is the production of gasses and acids, which begin the process of Putrefaction.
  
• *Warning Graphic Pictures* This is also when Insects become attracted to the body (called Forensic Entomological Decomposition A little more info on bugs can be read here. Insects speed up the decomposition process.
  
• This is when Putrefaction[url] begins (repeating to keep it in order)
  
• Two compounds created are [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putrescine]Putrescine and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaverine]Cadavarine[/url]
  
• 2–3 days: Staining begins on the abdomen. The body begins to swell, owing to gas formation.
  
• 3–4 days: The staining spreads and veins become discolored.
  
• 5–6 days: The abdomen swells with gas (produced by the bacteria that decompose the body), and the skin blisters.
  
• 2 weeks: The abdomen becomes very tight and swollen.
  
• 3 weeks: Tissues begin to soften. Organs and cavities are bursting. The nails fall off.
  
• 4 weeks: Soft tissues begin to liquefy, and the face becomes unrecognizable.
  
• The exact rate of putrefaction is dependent upon many factors, such as weather, exposure and location. Thus, refrigeration at a morgue or funeral home can retard the process, allowing for burial in three days or so following death without embalming.
  
• Black Putrefaction - After the body goes through the bloating stage it begins the black putrefaction stage. At this point the body cavity ruptures, the abdominal gases escape and the body darkens from its greenish color. These activities allow for a greater invasion of scavengers, and insect activity increases greatly. This stage ends as the bones become apparent, which can take anywhere from 10 to 20 days after death depending on the surrounding environmental conditions. This period is also dependent on the degree to which the body is exposed to each and any of the varying elements and conditions.
  
• Butyric fermentation -After the early putrefaction and black putrefaction phases have taken place, the body begins mummification, in which the body begins to dry out. Once the human carcass has mummified it goes through saponification, the formation of adipocere (grave wax), referring to the loss of body odor and the formation of a cheesy appearance on the cadaver. Mummification is considered a post-active stage because there is less definite distinction between changes as indicated by reduced skin, cartilage, and bone. Mummification is also indicated when all of the internal organs are lost due to insect activity.
  
• Dry decay - When the last of the soft-tissue has been removed from the body, the final stage of decomposition, skeletonization, occurs. This stage encompasses the deterioration of skeletal remains, and is the longest of the decomposition processes. Skeletonization differs markedly from the previous stages, not only in length, but in the deterioration process itself.

So what was my point of all that? I needed to show how throughout the decomposition process, energy is being changed, but neither being created nor destroyed. You have all these biological aspects that all move towards breaking down that body, and during that it is just the exchange of matter or energy no different to a Human eating a hamburger or laying down some mulch so the lawn looks better.

Now what someone might ask is: "Well what about the conscience/personality?"

My response is nothing different. The Brain, and therefore personality or conscience is a well understood (thanks to modern neuroscience) phenomena. While philosophers have tried to debate for centuries on whether or not the mind and body are one (called the mind body problem) modern science states that monism (the idea they are one entity) is the current leader. Decartes famously tried to prove the mind was seperate from the body giving us the statement "Cogito Ergo Sum" or "I think, therefore I am (or I exist)".

But essentially with the aid of an MRI machine, I can see what you are thinking or feeling while watching a film. With proper equipment, I can stimulate portions of your brain to make you experience anger, sadness, joy, etc. The brain does this naturally by sending more blood (and oxygen) to the areas which are being used the most. Thus the death of the brain is nothing more than the lack of neurons firing coupled with the cessation of the flow of blood to the brain. You experience nothing, it's like going to sleep without ever having a dream, but never waking up. It's blackness, but it's nothing you can experience. It's the opposite of life, it's not life. Our existence is merely the beautifully orchestrated dance of numerous organs, muscles, organisms, and tissues performed at the same time.

Thus, from my position, there aren't such things as ghosts because there isn't any grounds for them. There isn't any missing or mythological energy, your energy is simply consumed during the decomposition process and turned into something else (like oil for example). And the assumption that ghosts must be the direct product of death is somewhat of a jump in logic. It makes just as much logical sense to say the mystery energy turns you into a lump of coal in the ground or a teapot floating in space around Pluto as it does to say that the end result is the creation of a ghost.

*Again, that last part isn't an insult, nor would I hope you take it as one, but merely an explanation of the logic involved*

Ixidor Asgrod

I love you.

"Whatever personal belief you hold will dictate what you think will happen to yourself or others - but what we do know to be fact is that we do not know what happens after death.

We may think we know (in the form of theories, practices, beliefs, etc) but we do not really know, since you are alive, and whatever you believe will happen, might only happen after your death. (So, hence, you do not know what will happen until you die.)

This doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in your faith, or necessairly that your faith is wrong; it only means that we, as flawed beings, cannot be certain as to what awaits us after death."

Straight from one of your sources. People simply don't know what happens after the process of death - it's because people whom are alive, can't possibly comprehend it.

Basically, you won't know until your physical being ceases existence.

Galenth Dysley wrote:

"Whatever personal belief you hold will dictate what you think will happen to yourself or others - but what we do know to be fact is that we do not know what happens after death.

We may think we know (in the form of theories, practices, beliefs, etc) but we do not really know, since you are alive, and whatever you believe will happen, might only happen after your death. (So, hence, you do not know what will happen until you die.)

This doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in your faith, or necessairly that your faith is wrong; it only means that we, as flawed beings, cannot be certain as to what awaits us after death."

Straight from one of your sources. People simply don't know what happens after the process of death - it's because people whom are alive, can't possibly comprehend it.

Basically, you won't know until your physical being ceases existence.

Or you will never know since there is nothing beyond the physical being.

TitanT2 wrote:

Galenth Dysley wrote:

"Whatever personal belief you hold will dictate what you think will happen to yourself or others - but what we do know to be fact is that we do not know what happens after death.

We may think we know (in the form of theories, practices, beliefs, etc) but we do not really know, since you are alive, and whatever you believe will happen, might only happen after your death. (So, hence, you do not know what will happen until you die.)

This doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in your faith, or necessairly that your faith is wrong; it only means that we, as flawed beings, cannot be certain as to what awaits us after death."

Straight from one of your sources. People simply don't know what happens after the process of death - it's because people whom are alive, can't possibly comprehend it.

Basically, you won't know until your physical being ceases existence.

Or you will never know since there is nothing beyond the physical being.

Proof?

Despite Ixidor's long post, he never stated what happens after the process of death is complete.

He simply stated what happens during the process, and that ghosts can't possibly manifest in a physical plane. There are several things science cannot explain.

For instance, the "Big Bang" theory is just that, a theory - and if the "Big Bang" theory is true, what was there before? Nothingness?

Galenth Dysley wrote:

TitanT2 wrote:

Galenth Dysley wrote:

"Whatever personal belief you hold will dictate what you think will happen to yourself or others - but what we do know to be fact is that we do not know what happens after death.

We may think we know (in the form of theories, practices, beliefs, etc) but we do not really know, since you are alive, and whatever you believe will happen, might only happen after your death. (So, hence, you do not know what will happen until you die.)

This doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in your faith, or necessairly that your faith is wrong; it only means that we, as flawed beings, cannot be certain as to what awaits us after death."

Straight from one of your sources. People simply don't know what happens after the process of death - it's because people whom are alive, can't possibly comprehend it.

Basically, you won't know until your physical being ceases existence.

Or you will never know since there is nothing beyond the physical being.

Proof?

Despite Ixidors long post, he never stated what happens after the process of death is complete.

He simply stated what happens during the process, and that ghosts can't possibly manifest in a physical plane. There are several things science cannot explain.

For instance, the "Big Bang" theory is just that, a theory - and if the "Big Bang" theory is true, what was there before? Nothingness?

Well, i am one of those people that believes in what he sees. And i have never seen any objective evidence or with my own eye that a different plane or energy exists. Just biological matter in different shapes and forms.

Galenth Dysley wrote:

"Whatever personal belief you hold will dictate what you think will happen to yourself or others - but what we do know to be fact is that we do not know what happens after death.

We may think we know (in the form of theories, practices, beliefs, etc) but we do not really know, since you are alive, and whatever you believe will happen, might only happen after your death. (So, hence, you do not know what will happen until you die.)

This doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in your faith, or necessairly that your faith is wrong; it only means that we, as flawed beings, cannot be certain as to what awaits us after death."

Straight from one of your sources. People simply don't know what happens after the process of death - it's because people whom are alive, can't possibly comprehend it.

Basically, you won't know until your physical being ceases existence.

To go with absolute Skepticism, even that person can't be sure, thus we shouldn't accept their point of view either. Especially the point about "Whatever personal belief you hold will dictate what you think will happen to yourself or others"

This is inherently contradictory to the practices of the three major transcendental religions, as well as some of the others. For example: Both Hinduism and Christianity can't be right, because the Hindu god (I believe it is Brahma) conflicts with the Christian God.

Both Hinduism and Buddhism can't be right, because they have inherently contradictory concepts for the same things. Buddhists view life as suffering, and rebirth is a prison that humanity must escape via enlightenment and the detachment from all things. Hinduism believes that your reward or punishment is whatever you are reincarnated as.

The Biblical God kind of makes a problem when he proclaims he is the one and only god.

The statement would be less contradictory if it only applied to one person, but because they extended it to everyone, the contradiction exists. If I believe everyone dies and go to Hell but myself, does that actually happen? But what about someone who believes they are going to Catholic Purgatory, or a extremist follower of Islam who believes they are going to Heaven (or whatever the Quran calls it)? Does my belief rule over their belief? Does their's overrule mine? Is it whoever has the belief first gets to decide what happens? Is it whoever is the newest to die gets to decide? This question gets even muddier when we look at the concept of a being who had life but never got to actually experience anything outside of the womb (such as a stillborn or an abortion). What does their afterlife look like? Does everyone else's afterlife wink out of existence?

But then again the statement is a fuffy non-answer. It basically says "Whatever you think will happen to other people, is what you think will happen to other people". It's all around just a bad statement to make.

Then again you could go with extreme skepticism and question that pretty much everything exists.

I guess I should have clarified I was going to come at it with the concept of Metaphysical naturalism. But regardless, we do know the physical process of dying pretty well (humans have been dying for a while now). I'm going to assume it was one of the opinion links though, which is overall just that, a non-scientific opinion from someone on the internet who probably just gave the most convenient. Feel free to disregard them links I used that contain them, but I don't feel it invalidates any of the actual science I put up there. You can even use the opinion to back up your position if you like, I just put up that stuff for everyone to look at.

TitanT2 wrote:

Galenth Dysley wrote:

TitanT2 wrote:

Galenth Dysley wrote:

"Whatever personal belief you hold will dictate what you think will happen to yourself or others - but what we do know to be fact is that we do not know what happens after death.

We may think we know (in the form of theories, practices, beliefs, etc) but we do not really know, since you are alive, and whatever you believe will happen, might only happen after your death. (So, hence, you do not know what will happen until you die.)

This doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in your faith, or necessairly that your faith is wrong; it only means that we, as flawed beings, cannot be certain as to what awaits us after death."

Straight from one of your sources. People simply don't know what happens after the process of death - it's because people whom are alive, can't possibly comprehend it.

Basically, you won't know until your physical being ceases existence.

Or you will never know since there is nothing beyond the physical being.

Proof?

Despite Ixidors long post, he never stated what happens after the process of death is complete.

He simply stated what happens during the process, and that ghosts can't possibly manifest in a physical plane. There are several things science cannot explain.

For instance, the "Big Bang" theory is just that, a theory - and if the "Big Bang" theory is true, what was there before? Nothingness?

Well, i am one of those people that believes in what he sees. And i have never seen any objective evidence or with my own eye that a different plane or energy exists. Just biological matter in different shapes and forms.

We all choose to beleive, or not beleive for that matter, what we want. There is always something that makes people beleive in something. For example, some of those who don't beleive in any higher entity, do it because of fear. They don't want to think that they're nothing but an ant compared to something else. Then, those who beleive, they do it because they want to find a meaning for life, they want to beleive that what they do in this life, has purpose. There are some many things in this life that science nor religon nor anything can't understand, that if you hate/dislike people with different beleifs than yours, you're going to be the only one that's going to be angry. Most people don't care what others say, specially on the internet, so calling a moron someone that beleive in ghost or something you don't, is just a wate of time. If you don't beleive in ghost, that's fine, I respect your opinion.
Sorry if my grammar hurted your eyes.

Rorschach wrote:

1. We all choose to beleive, or not beleive for that matter, what we want. There is always something that makes people beleive in something. For example, some of those who don't beleive in any higher entity, do it because of fear. They don't want to think that they're nothing but an ant compared to something else.

2. Then, those who beleive, they do it because they want to find a meaning for life, they want to beleive that what they do in this life, has purpose.

3. There are some many things in this life that science nor religon nor anything can't understand, that if you hate/dislike people with different beleifs than yours, you're going to be the only one that's going to be angry.

4. Most people don't care what others say, specially on the internet, so calling a moron someone that beleive in ghost or something you don't, is just a wate of time. If you don't beleive in ghost, that's fine, I respect your opinion.
Sorry if my grammar hurted your eyes.

1. Statement one is false, people believe because they fear. The mayor religions are based on fear. Not for the love of their god. They worship a god because they are affraid if they don't worship their god something bad will happen into the afterlife. There are several reasons not to believe in the supernatural or a god. For example lack of evidence, hatred for religion or simply because someone doesn't care.

2. Fear, doubt... Religion is the easiest way out. It doesn't require you to think. They might find their deluded meaning but it is nearly 100% sure that it isn't that at all. Because there is no deep meaning to life.

3. I hate religion (especially Islam) because they pump false ideals in our youth and try to indoctrinate everyone. Some religions will even use force to brainwash you. If the Sharia would get foothold in Europe for example it would be a disaster. It isn't anger, it is hatred. I hate religion because the premise of religion is just wrong. It turns people into zealots. And even if a religious group hasn't got zealots in them. There will always be one that will start to become a zealot. Religion is pure potion for the mind in my eyes. And if i would wish anything in the world it would be that the concept religion would no longer exist.

4. Some do some don't. But if someone is going to yell around that ghosts exist then expect critisism. And even, i think you are a total moron because...

1. Fear, hope, at the end, is all the same. Most people that beleive, beleive because of fear, but the same happens with the people that don't beleive.

2. I never said religion. Hope and faith is not the same thing as religion. I despise religion, yet I beleive in God. It isn't the same thing.

3. I hate religion too.

4. I could say the same thing. You're a moron because you only beleive in what you see. Then you call me a moron and I call you a moron and it would never end. I was just trying to say something, not to start a discussion.

Please, lets keep it civilized everyone...

Galenth Dysley wrote:

Proof?

Despite Ixidor's long post, he never stated what happens after the process of death is complete.

He simply stated what happens during the process, and that ghosts can't possibly manifest in a physical plane. There are several things science cannot explain.

For instance, the "Big Bang" theory is just that, a theory - and if the "Big Bang" theory is true, what was there before? Nothingness?

But that was the entire process of death. You go though everything, and then you are a skeleton. That's it, the only thing after is fossilization and then becoming oil or something like that. There isn't anything else to death with Metaphysical Naturalism.

As for there are "several things that science can't explain", the problem is that just because science can't explain it, doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever you like. This is the same as the religious God of the Gaps argument. It is not logically sound or valid.

And the whole "The Big Bang is just a theory" is really frustrating for this reason:

The Big Bang theory is a Scientific Theory is a Theory of equal magnitude to that of the Theory of Gravity, Atomic Theory, The Theory of Evolution, The Theory of Plate Tectonics, The Theory of Relativity, url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory]Germ Theory[/url], and Kinetic Theory.

So saying "the big bang is just a theory" is saying "Germs causes diseases is just a theory" or "the movement of plates causes earthquakes is just a theory" or "the idea that everything is made of matter is just a theory" or "the concept that a water molecule is made of two Hydrogen atom and one Oxygen atom is just a theory" or even "Gravity is just a theory".

As for what existed before? Science has yet to figure that out, because the technology is so complicated and expensive that it would be a very time consuming thing to do (although I don't doubt people will do it eventually). But it is completely illogical to just fill in the gap with anything you like. Any answer is equally illogical. A Giant Space Lizard, a Despotic Toaster, A box full of kittens, Nothing, everything, all of these are equally illogical to state existed before the big bang.

I suggest you look into string theory and especially Superstring Theory.

Ixidor Asgrod wrote:

Galenth Dysley wrote:

Proof?

Despite Ixidor's long post, he never stated what happens after the process of death is complete.

He simply stated what happens during the process, and that ghosts can't possibly manifest in a physical plane. There are several things science cannot explain.

For instance, the "Big Bang" theory is just that, a theory - and if the "Big Bang" theory is true, what was there before? Nothingness?

But that was the entire process of death. You go threw everything, and then you are a skeleton. That's it, the only thing after is fossilization and then becoming oil or something like that. There isn't anything else to death with Metaphysical Naturalism.

As for there are "several things that science can't explain", the problem is that just because science can't explain it, doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever you like. This is the same as the religious God of the Gaps argument. It is not logically sound or valid.

And the whole "The Big Bang is just a theory" is really frustrating for this reason:

The Big Bang theory is a Scientific Theory is a Theory of equal magnitude to that of the Theory of Gravity, Atomic Theory, The Theory of Evolution, The Theory of Plate Tectonics, The Theory of Relativity, url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory]Germ Theory[/url], and Kinetic Theory.

So saying "the big bang is just a theory" is saying "Germs causes diseases is just a theory" or "the movement of plates causes earthquakes is just a theory" or "the idea that everything is made of matter is just a theory" or "the concept that a water molecule is made of two Hydrogen atom and one Oxygen atom is just a theory" or even "Gravity is just a theory".

As for what existed before? Science has yet to figure that out, because the technology is so complicated and expensive that it would be a very time consuming thing to do (although I don't doubt people will do it eventually). But it is completely illogical to just fill in the gap with anything you like. Any answer is equally illogical. A Giant Space Lizard, a Despotic Toaster, A box full of kittens, Nothing, everything, all of these are equally illogical to state existed before the big bang.

I suggest you look into string theory and especially Superstring Theory.

And the same applies to science. Just because science cannot prove God or any other higher entity, doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because you can't prove something, it doesn't mean that doesn't exist. Science tries to ridiculize everything they cannot prove because well, if they cannot prove it, it doesn't exist. That's as illogical as anything you might say about religion.

Ixidor Asgrod wrote:

Galenth Dysley wrote:

Proof?

Despite Ixidor's long post, he never stated what happens after the process of death is complete.

He simply stated what happens during the process, and that ghosts can't possibly manifest in a physical plane. There are several things science cannot explain.

For instance, the "Big Bang" theory is just that, a theory - and if the "Big Bang" theory is true, what was there before? Nothingness?

But that was the entire process of death. You go though everything, and then you are a skeleton. That's it, the only thing after is fossilization and then becoming oil or something like that. There isn't anything else to death with Metaphysical Naturalism.

As for there are "several things that science can't explain", the problem is that just because science can't explain it, doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever you like. This is the same as the religious God of the Gaps argument. It is not logically sound or valid.

And the whole "The Big Bang is just a theory" is really frustrating for this reason:

The Big Bang theory is a Scientific Theory is a Theory of equal magnitude to that of the Theory of Gravity, Atomic Theory, The Theory of Evolution, The Theory of Plate Tectonics, The Theory of Relativity, url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory]Germ Theory[/url], and Kinetic Theory.

So saying "the big bang is just a theory" is saying "Germs causes diseases is just a theory" or "the movement of plates causes earthquakes is just a theory" or "the idea that everything is made of matter is just a theory" or "the concept that a water molecule is made of two Hydrogen atom and one Oxygen atom is just a theory" or even "Gravity is just a theory".

As for what existed before? Science has yet to figure that out, because the technology is so complicated and expensive that it would be a very time consuming thing to do (although I don't doubt people will do it eventually). But it is completely illogical to just fill in the gap with anything you like. Any answer is equally illogical. A Giant Space Lizard, a Despotic Toaster, A box full of kittens, Nothing, everything, all of these are equally illogical to state existed before the big bang.

I suggest you look into string theory and especially Superstring Theory.

Scientific theory =/= scientific law.

A theory is just that, a theory (educated guess based on observation).

Well, I like to approach everything scientifically.
However, due to some of my family, I have experienced events that I have no explanation for.

Galenth Dysley wrote:

Ixidor Asgrod wrote:

Galenth Dysley wrote:

Proof?

Despite Ixidor's long post, he never stated what happens after the process of death is complete.

He simply stated what happens during the process, and that ghosts can't possibly manifest in a physical plane. There are several things science cannot explain.

For instance, the "Big Bang" theory is just that, a theory - and if the "Big Bang" theory is true, what was there before? Nothingness?

But that was the entire process of death. You go though everything, and then you are a skeleton. That's it, the only thing after is fossilization and then becoming oil or something like that. There isn't anything else to death with Metaphysical Naturalism.

As for there are "several things that science can't explain", the problem is that just because science can't explain it, doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever you like. This is the same as the religious God of the Gaps argument. It is not logically sound or valid.

And the whole "The Big Bang is just a theory" is really frustrating for this reason:

The Big Bang theory is a Scientific Theory is a Theory of equal magnitude to that of the Theory of Gravity, Atomic Theory, The Theory of Evolution, The Theory of Plate Tectonics, The Theory of Relativity, url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germ_theory]Germ Theory[/url], and Kinetic Theory.

So saying "the big bang is just a theory" is saying "Germs causes diseases is just a theory" or "the movement of plates causes earthquakes is just a theory" or "the idea that everything is made of matter is just a theory" or "the concept that a water molecule is made of two Hydrogen atom and one Oxygen atom is just a theory" or even "Gravity is just a theory".

As for what existed before? Science has yet to figure that out, because the technology is so complicated and expensive that it would be a very time consuming thing to do (although I don't doubt people will do it eventually). But it is completely illogical to just fill in the gap with anything you like. Any answer is equally illogical. A Giant Space Lizard, a Despotic Toaster, A box full of kittens, Nothing, everything, all of these are equally illogical to state existed before the big bang.

I suggest you look into string theory and especially Superstring Theory.

Scientific theory =/= scientific law.

Galenth, I love you. That's what I have beeing trying to say all this time. For some reason I couldn't simplified in that way.

Mon Pandamari wrote:

Well, I like to approach everything scientifically.
However, due to some of my family, I have experienced events that I have no explanation for.

Wait... what?